I consider myself a modern woman. I am highly educated and highly compensated. I work in a field traditionally populated by men. I own a house and can wield a wrench or a whisk. I don’t need a man to take care of me, I’m pretty darn good at doing it myself. But like a lot of women, sometimes the modern and the traditional collide.
I’ve waited a long time to get married, I’m the last one left of my friends and family. In fact Mr. M was married before. He vowed to never walk down the aisle again, until he met me. After 6 years together the only thing keeping us apart is money.
I haven’t opened Mr. M’s wallet to the world, what you see here are my finances. He has been underemployed since the day we met, the difference in our incomes is staggering. I pay the bulk of our expenses, he has trouble keeping up with his small portion. If I wait till he can afford a ring, I may be waiting forever.
I’m tired of suggestions to go without a ring or to get something cheap, what I want is quite modest. I feel like I’ve waited too long to settle for something that doesn’t make me happy. I know it’s not original, that it’s all the result of marketing by De Beers. I don’t really care, I know what I want.
All of this has led me to my latest thought – if this ring is so important to me, then why don’t I buy it for myself? Why should I burden Mr. M’s finances with something he can’t afford? Mr. M is not enthused by the idea, perhaps he is worried what his friends will think. For the most part he is proud that I earn more than him, but old stereotypes die hard. I think he would prefer to be the breadwinner.
In an era where women outnumber men in the workforce, are antiquated notions of courtship gone? I admit I’m not entirely comfortable with the idea of buying my own ring. Part of me still longs for a more traditional life. Am I modern and liberated or still shackled to roles more suited to the middle ages? Some days, I don’t know.
I’d love to hear from you, boys and girls. Should a woman of better means than her partner buy her own engagement ring?
See Follow-Up: The Engagement Ring Update
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31 comments:
I can see how you can be torn but when you're married your finances are really joint whether you merge your accounts or not. A friend of mine received an expensive engagement ring from her struggling actor husband. She was happy with it and he was proud that he bought it for her. However, it was really more than he could afford and in reality, they both paid for it since he had to charge it and pay interest on it for several years.
I think if you really want to get married, then you should. Money (esp. over money over a ring) shouldn't be stopping you. Maybe you can set up a "ring account", then you guys can go look at rings together or he can surprise you, but either way he takes care of the logistics of purchasing the ring and of course, gets down on one knee. (I may be progressive.. but I'm not THAT progressive. Proposal to me = down on one knee!) :)
Also, I agree that the male-female gender roles still have an impact, and I'd be interested in more of your thoughts on marrying someone who is underemployed (not just an income issue).
I don't even agree with women even shopping for engagement rings with her beloved. I think the engagement ring is important to the woman, the man should know that and decide on his choice accordingly.
In a way, I think they are like the man, she is going to have to take what she gets, not what she imagines him to be. If she doesn't like the ring, it will be because either HE didn't bother to feel her out enough to find out what she'd like, or because SHE places too much importance on jewelry.
If I was a woman, I wouldn't buy my own engagement ring. I might buy myself a big fat stone for the right hand though!
I will also say that, unless there are special circumstances, guys who give girls engagement rings on Christmas or their birthdays get a failing grade too. It like "Hey I don't have to buy her anything for Christmas, we are getting engaged!"
Final tips for economically challenged males: marquee cuts LOOK bigger than other diamonds the same carat size. Plus, April is "diamond month" and there are almost always sales. I won't forget that because I didn't know that when I bought mine the last week of March. :-)
Jewelry is on super-sale right now if you are trying. If you really want a rock, why not look at the fake ones, like the Moissanites? Worth a peek, right?
I think it's worth examining WHY you want the rock. And there are a lot of reasons... Every woman you know will size it up, everyone has one, you don't want ppl to assume things about your fiances, and so on.
Oh, and I don't think it matters whose finances it comes from, as long as you plan on combining after marriage. It seems kind of silly for him to pay if you have the cash.
Although my BF is fully employed and makes a decent income, I make a bunch more and I pay the lion's share of the bills. I have assumed a lot of the traditionally male role. Mostly I am fine with that but sometimes it is hard because I would like him to open a door for me or buy me a fancy jewelry item although I am the one who can afford it. We are too few generations removed from those who lived these "traditional" lives. Actually, our so-called traditions were only solidified in the Industrial Revolution. Before that people tended to work from home, on farms or in "cottage industry" in which both men and women participated. The crap notion of a woman's place being in the home and a man's in the factory (workplace) is a Victorian invention.
But I digress (is my rant showing?)... let me just wipe the foam from my mouth and I will continue.
I say that Mr. M's feelings are important. After all, he is the reason you want the ring. A ring fund is a good idea. Would it make him feel better to put his money towards a ring for a few months and not contribute to household bills during that time? That way he would be the one technically paying for it. He could tell his friends he paid for the ring and could afford it because he saved up for it, and it would be true. If you don't care where the ring money comes from and are willing to spend the money on it are you willing to pay all household bills for a while instead?
Interesting...
I too am a capable woman, I own my own brand new home, I work in a male dominated field and I am ridiculously successful for my age. However, my boyfriend makes even more cash than I do in corporate management and he's younger than I am. My point in all this is that my issue with the male/female divide is who raises the kids? I'm not trying to jump ahead of myself because we're not anywhere near that phase yet, but I've always had issues with having to think about giving up my career just because I'm the woman. And in all my previous relationships I was by far the breadwinner so I didn't think it was much of a choice. But now... with my moneybags sweetheart :) I think it would make more financial sense for me to stay home for a while. But I've worked and fought so long and hard for my career! It would be so hard to take a break in my mid-30s just when I'm reaching some pretty good heights and watch some of my male colleagues surge past me because they never left. And YES i realize I'm ignoring the emotional factor that kids bring into it all... but I'd be ok with a man staying home and me working. So thats where my gender-roles stress comes from.
As far as rings go, I am NOT a diamond girl in the least, so money doesn't come into it. But, if I was in your situation, I think it sounds like you two need to be more open about your finances with each other! You sound a bit disapproving of his underemployment (maybe I'm reading that wrong...sorry!) and it doesn't sound like you're comfortable talking about it with him. I like the tip a previous commenter made about working on goals together. If you confess that you're dying for a certain ring, I see no reason why you two can't both pay for it. Either that, or he has to "buck up" as Dave Ramsey or Gail Vaz Oxlade would say and commit to making/saving the extra bucks your ring will cost if he really wants to be The Man about it.
One other thing - I say remember how lucky you are to have love in your life! When I was tragically single and my girlfriends would whine about their men, I'd think AT LEAST YOU HAVE ONE! APPRECIATE HIM! and that little reminder has stuck with me in my current relationship. No matter what is happening its good to remind yourself that you've got a great guy here and thats the most important thing, and everything else will just work themselves out.
No.
The historical point of an engagement ring is that he bought it to save/pay a down payment on your love and your fidelity to him and commitment as a partner to you. Which sounds really antiquated but it's true. It means they are willing to put a chunk of their savings towards someone they love.
With that being said, the ring does not have to be expensive, and are you even sure he's saving for it? He may not be.
I hate to be a totally harsh bitch but if he even bought you a small diamond ring or something, that'd be something over nothing or using lack of money as an excuse if it is just an excuse (I kind of feel like I am getting that vibe from your post that you feel resentment, which is totally normal - I've been there & done that for 7 years).
(Why is he underemployed again? I am of the belief you can always find ways to make money even if you hate every stinkin' moment of it).
And you should not be buying your own engagement ring, period. Even a plastic ring, or a ring worth $200 (a simple band) is enough as a symbol of love if he cannot afford anything better.
I'd rather have that, than to buy my own ring and pay all the bills and give him a free ride.
If he wants to be your committed partner, he ponies up for the ring, and then you two can split the costs of the wedding or figure out some joint payment thing that suits your situations (75% you, 25% him or parents .. whatever).
Just my thoughts :)
I don't wear much if any jewellery anymore.
Back in the day when I lived a much less frugal life, I bought myself jewellery -- usually rings.
My mother was quite the gemologist so I grew up learning about gemstones and design etc. So I tend to be pretty particular about what I like.
In the past, I have been given rings and present during the purchasing.
Honestly? I would like to have a say in the decision and I am not opposed to paying for it.
I view beautifully designed jewellery as works of art and art is a very personal thing.
I don't need an event like marriage to want jewellery. We didn't exchange rings when we got married. We wanted the marriage to stand up on its own accord.
It's a tough call. Good luck!
I wouldn't buy my own. I think it's more the gesture that's important. I prefer my man to buy the engagement ring 100%. I think he should save what he can to buy what he can afford and it doesn't have to be a huge rock...it doesn't even have to be a diamond at all...just whatever he or you or both of you or whatever you two decide.
I would buy myself a right-hand ring, though.
HTH,
:) D
As for friends thinking something or other about who bought the ring, I'm not sure why anyone has to know who paid for it. Don't you keep those kinds of details private? I thought it was in poor taste to discuss costs and who paid, how they paid, etc.
This is coming from someone who doesn't really care about jewelry much, though, and particularly about engagement rings. We have platinum wedding bands and I said, and meant, that I didn't want an engagement ring. I'm just too practical to want to spend money on that, but I understand that everyone has things they do want to spend money on, and I perfectly understand.
I'm wondering if the two of you could buy an inexpensive ring and then later upgrade it when you've been married for years and are way more financially stable.
I don't want to butt in, but I sense some issues involving resentment over his income and financial contributions, and I hope that does not cloud the whole marriage.
I read my post out to BF and he totally agreed with my points (you may not however which is totally fine since it's you and not me).
But if you don't want an expensive ring, he has to at least put in $500 or something and then you can cover the rest (maybe). That's another option.
Anyway, BF was so excited about the topic he wanted to reply too.. LOL..
BF says: Rings don't have a real value - same principle as flowers, in the sense that you cannot resell it for the original cost.
It's just a sign that he paid money for a symbol of his love and financial commitment to you and taking care of you.
Sociologists say that it's like a guarantee - when you buy a ring it means "Look I am willing to pay $2000 for something that can be resold for only $1500 or so, essentially burning $500 the minute I buy it, like a new car.. it's just as a way to show you that I love you, and if you really needed something like a medical emergency, I am willing to pay or spend time (my resources and help) even more to help you out if you need it".
He also has to buy the ring from his own savings and cannot be put on a credit card or borrowed from parents either.
It's basically a sign that he will be saving money and buy you a ring to show you that he loves you for something that is essentially worth less than its original price for resale.
It costs HIM money, and doesn't have any financial value for the girl since if she resells it and it's a sign that he's trustworthy and proof that he can do what it takes to take care of you.
And in primitive societies, men would spend days cutting down a huge tree by themselves to make wood, and he would present that wood to the woman he loved as a sign of "I have spent all this time and energy to show you with the results of my labour what I am willing to do for you when times get rough."
The wood itself wasn't necessarily very important, it was useful and nice for the woman, but it wasn't like giving up his life for her - which is what he would do to save and protect her and his family if need be.
Anyway, that was BF's view.. :)
Rings do have value, maybe not exactly what they cost, but you can resell them..
Anyway, your point. I don't know. It really is between you and mr m, and I do agree with Wellheeled that he'd take care of the logistics.
My bf will be able to afford something, but still, it is $X less that he'll bring to the table when we do get married, so... what is the real difference?
You seem totally comfortable with being the breadwinner (true?), so if his underemployment is something you think you can live with, don't let the ring be the hurdle.
If you're both comfortable with it, that's your call. I would consider chipping in or splitting the cost if I had my heart set on something I knew he could not afford, period, but that's just a practical matter. Besides, he has to contribute something to the ring to feel comfortable with the arrangement, I'd figure. And you know, if he felt strongly about getting you a ring, if you feel strongly about the one you want, why not find another means of bringing in income specifically for the ring?
My parents would create new income streams to cover things like private school, back in the day.
Would I buy my own? Nah. But I don't actually really care much for rings with which I could put my eye out. I've scratched my eyelids with family-bought rings one too many times.
I believe the man's love and devotion doesn't need to be symbolized by an object, it's in his actions, his thoughtfulness, and willingness to be there for you. His everydayness. That's what's important to me.
Hi there-wow, there are a lot of different opinions flying about, its great to read every ones take on the situation! Do what feels right for you and your future husband and I wish you all the best in making your decision my dear!
I think he should save up and pay for one himself.
If he can't afford a lot, then let him get you a symbolic one until he can afford the one that you want in particular.
When my parents got married, my dad had to borrow money to buy my mom's ring. It was just a simple, small thing but she loved it and wore it for 25 years.
Now that my parents are more liquid, my mom had the original diamond reset with a crapload of other diamonds, emeralds and rubies the way that she wanted. It was definitely another proud moment for my dad when he saw her wearing the custom rings that she wanted, yet still cherished the original one.
There are lots of ways you can compromise on this, but I definitely think that a ring is a symbol from the man to the woman and should stay that way. Therefore, you should not buy it yourself! :)
I wonder about a compromise? I liked the idea I saw in the comments about a ring fund that both contribute to. Also, I have a number of underemployed friends in a similar business to your gentleman (if I remember correctly from another post) and a lot of them are picking up spare gigs here and there doing other work or selling items on eBay. If he's crafty can he make money that way? There are lots and lots of other ways than his standard paycheck that he could contribute.
Another thought I had was splitting the cost of the engagement ring and the band up. The band is usually less expensive, so if he bought that and you bought the ring, you would still be buying the set together.
Of course, I'm an old divorced lady and wedding rings don't mean the same thing they once did. Me? If I got hitched again, I'd do without.
I don't think that there should be "rules" on how a couple goes about getting engaged. Every relationship is different, and I think it's completely up to you and Mr.M.
Would I buy my own ring? Absolutely. If that's what needed to be done. It's not the ideal situation, but it's not right nor wrong.
When getting married/engaged to someone, it's not about YOU and it's not about HIM - it's about BOTH of you!
Personally, I would never let money come between getting married & not getting married to the man I love.
And hey. My parents were together for 7-years, lived together and shared all their finances, and when they agreed it was time to get married - she picked out her ring, and who knows who paid for it, since they pooled their money. They are still madly in love today ;)
i understand your situation. i face the same question i am thinking. but i think if my bf buy ring for me. maybe i dont' like it much. he is in a bit trouble finance problem. so maybe i decide to buy ring for both of us.
i value lifepartner relationship .not just ring. in future, he can buy me again if his finance get better.
If after 6 years he hasn't proposed or saved up for the ring, then honey, he ain't doing it ever. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? He is getting a free pass on everything from you and using you. Of course, you are letting him.
You shouldn't be paying for the ring, HE should. He's living the good life on your dime and has no responsibilities.
In a sense, you are demasculating him. Men are programmed to be providers, and I'm not limiting that to a financial sense.
Why is the ring so important to you? Isn't that a little materialistic?
You got some problems.
Even though I consider myself a feminist (equalist, really), I understand the desire for the traditional engagement ring and wedding. It's romantic! As is the proposal on one knee, the timing and surprise of it, etc.
Does Mr. M. know how you feel about it--that a nice ring is important to you? If he does, he's probably already saving to get one for you--give him a little time if that's the case. That said, you might consider whether having an expensive ring is important enough to you to delay your wedding. If not, you might consider a less expensive engagement ring for now--you can always get a different stone fitted for it later if you really must have one.
Something also perhaps worth mentioning is the idea of tattooed rings. Even people who aren't into tattoos, can't deny there's a certain romanticism to proclaiming one's love in such a permanent fashion. And ink's a lot cheaper than diamonds.
Best of luck to you both.
Whatever the two of you agree upon is right.
But I will tell you about me, or should I say "us". We've been married more than 20 years, and we're happy, and he IS a wonderful husband (and now father), but he blew it in the fiance department. He wouldn't buy me a ring--any ring. And what I wanted was modest--the ring I had in mind had a gemstone instead of a diamond, and cost less than a week's salary. I don't think it crossed his mind that a ring was on the to-do list, while for me, it's part of getting married. He told me that his mother didn't have one, and that since it was good enough for her... But here's the joke--she DID have one, but it was unusual--no stone--so he didn't realize it. And I'm sure his dad never talked to his mom that way.
I seriously considered breaking up with him over this--because he wouldn't listen. But I married him, because he had never treated me like that before, and he hasn't since.
We had a long-distance engagement, so when it was time to get the wedding rings, he told me what kind of ring he wanted and I picked out mine (both plain gold bands), and I went to a store alone and bought them. I made him send me a check for the cost of my ring ($125) because after the disappointment of having no engagement ring, even if I had to get the rings by myself, no way was I going to pay for my own ring, even if we were going to get married one month later and pool our money. And he did; he even thought it was funny.
Anyway, a few months after the wedding, I went out and bought a ring similar to the engagement ring I would have chosen, and it cost about two days of his salary (and I worked too). It was a pretty ring, and I wore it for several years.
Then I went on a business trip to another country, and I was advised to leave my "engagement" ring at home, so I did. When I got home two weeks later and went to put my ring back on, I looked at it, and I thought "this is not an engagement ring; he didn't give to me during or for our engagement; HE didn't give it to me at all". And I haven't worn it since. And exactly one person on this planet noticed that I'd stopped wearing it--and that person was not my husband.
If you want to buy it yourself, fine. If you want to share the cost so you can have the ring of your dreams, fine. But if he won't buy you one and you don't like the reason why, think very hard. Very hard.
I really think this is an individual decision. There are no "rules" to it, except what works best for you and Mr. M.
I was willing to buy my own ring. I wanted a nice ring, I am the one who currently makes more money, and we have already decided to merge our finances once we are married anyway.
I think each couple has their own stores and symbols of value. What does the ring mean to you?
To me, the ring is a symbol of our unity, and that is all. It doesn't matter to me whether he or I wrote the check.
I live with my guy (we are engaged). We invest in our relationship every day. I did not need him to buy the ring to show me that he can save (he has already done so with our other goals). He shows me every day that he values me and cares for me (small examples, he leaves the house 20 mins early in the morning to clear the snow off and warm up my car in addition to his; he cooks dinner on a daily basis; he gives footrubs. etc).
In other words, there is nothing that him buying the ring could have demonstrated to me that he doesn't already demonstrate on a daily basis.
As it turns out, it was important to him that he buy the ring and propose. For me, it meant waiting and not knowing when he would make the move. It helped, though, knowing that he was going to do it at some point. (He ended up doing a fabulous job of it.)
That is how it was for me. The ring thing is different for me than, say, Fabulously Broke and her BF (although I think it is tres cool that they are on the same page, very compatible!!). And it's probably different for you and Mr. M. Go with what works for the two of you! Best of luck however it plays out!
Wow- for modern women I have to wonder about the ring problem. The ring is only an outward sign of commitment. If this is not a commitment issue-then get over it and move ahead.
The idea that it is what you are worth is hooey. The tradition of engagement rings are to tell others you are off the market---isn't he off the market as well? If the ring is important to you- both of you add to the account and let him do the choosing (YIPES! I would never let my hubby decide on my jewelry-but that is me). Personally, my hubby bought a nice ring and we did bands at the wedding. In the last 25 years many different rings have accompanied that band....
Our finances were joint almost from the time we met. Sometimes- in the last 27 years- I have made more. Other time he has. At this point I have more accumulated wealth- but he has a great pension. Heck, we trade off being the "at home parent" and the "family cook".
I learned that being underemployed is not always bad as long as everyone is happy about the amount you have to live off of.
What ever you do- work out the money issues now. It is the single thing that breaks couples up- at 2 years and at 25 years.
I wish you great happiness in the future. Love and friendship are the only things that it is about in the end
BTW-If you HAVE to be traditional- then fabulously broke is really funny- YOUR PARENTS are in charge of paying for the entire wedding....it is called dowry American style. My daughter didn't want much of a wedding- so she will get a good start on a house instead:>)
If what you really want is to be this man's wife, then get married already. I'm all for a women's independence, but if you buy the ring yourself, then its not really an engagement ring. You can buy the ring as a birthday present to yourself later.
Do what works for you, it is your decision and in the end it is still income from the both of you guys, these days women are making more money and sometimes it is emotionally depressing for a man when he knows that he can't afford your desire so he doesn't muster up the guts to get anything less..it is a male ego thing and honestly it is no one's business who paid for the ring..we feel we owe people explanations..WE DON'T..look at holloywood these men buy rings that could be a house and their marriage is literally gone in 60 seconds..overnight the bling and overnight no ring is my motto..do you and I pray that you have a happy marriage and wear your ring with pride and joy!! It is a symbol of your committment and if possible you all can split the cost or he can chip in..trust me I have had friends that have done the same and I support them 100% you know ur money and the reason why u r doing it ..there is no biblical rule for engagement and a ring..it is biblical for marriage..the laws of man and society says a man has to do this and that ENGAGEMENT= the verbal and mental commitment to marry someone and make them your partner for life. RING= the circle of the ring symbolizes eternity never ending, MAN BUYS THE RING FOR IT TO BE OFFICIAL= lies of society the committment is still there regardless of who paid for a ring that is a symbol, it does not dictate anything in the marriage be it .25 cts or 17 cts it is a symbol..hold your head up and plan your wedding!!! Many Blessings and God First
tell him go here this could be a start two options:
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I usually think of myself as an independent, liberated woman, but I was terribly hurt when my now husband proposed to me without a ring. I earn substantially more (almost twice as much), and I decided that love should matter more than money, so I bought my own ring because I felt this was an important symbol of our commitment. I really ended up resenting him for this. I didn't think I would and I am surprised by my own emotions. I guess it set the tone in our relationship where I am now the main breadwinner and I feel that I cannot rely on him if I should be the one in need of financial help. I feel that the responsibility to keep our household afloat is all on me. This all started with the ring. I am now thinking of divorce because of all the pressure this has brought into my life. Ladies, please leave ONE traditional thing to him. You will definitely regret buying your own ring!
Ok, So I may be really behind here (post in Febuary, I get to it in May).
However, I have just finished a long conversation with my man on this very topic. Only, add into the money and who buys, that the ring I have my heart set on is on sale for half price, right now.
While a guy may feel he needs to buy the ring to prove he can provide, or is willing to spend the money or whatever, the real thing (for me) is that I don't think money should stand in the way. At least, not in 'this day and age'. I make significantly more than my SO, and I can afford the ring I want- on sale or not. He will have a hard time even paying the sale price, and he would have to save for months to do it! By the time he has the money, it won't be on sale anymore (and even if he can negotiate it down from the full price, he most likely won't get it THAT low).
To me, its a sensibility thing. If you both agree that you're ready for the next step, money, of all things, should not get in the way, if both persons are comfortable with the overall financial situation. Its just a symbol. Hell, right now we're talking about me fronting the money, and him holding onto the ring until he's paid me back (so that he's spending his money, but we're getting the better price). And no one has to know how it was paid for. "It's the ring he gave me" is all that really matters.
So...Yes, I would buy my own, as long as my fiance wouldn't be too upset. You just always have to remember that compromise and honesty are the keys to a successful relationship.
OK....so I know I'm late too...but I'm just worn out by this whole topic! :) So...my little story. I was once a diamond diva. Got a beautiful solitaire when I got engaged, got new wedding sets and bands every couple years, right hand rings, diamonds truly were my best friend and I put so much importance on those rings - they were proof of my husband's love for me.
Then we hit some hard times. We separated. It was pretty terrible and suddenly all the diamonds and nice things meant nothing as compared to having my family intact. I realized I put a lot of emphasis on the rings, not so much emphasis on the man behind them.
Joy of joys - my husband and I reconciled after lots of good ol' therapy and prayer. It was like a honeymoon...but those diamonds were no longer dear to me. So one day he said "Let's go shopping..." and he took me to a jewelry store and told me he wanted to buy new rings. And for the first time I decided to allow him to choose my ring - and he did a great job...it was not what I would have chosen but it is special because HE bought it. I accepted it as a symbol of his love.
Now, with that being said - it is important for you to have an engagement ring so it should be important for your fiancee, as well. But the size, shape and price should really be up to him. OK..so maybe give him a little direction on style...but let him do it - he's still a man, lower income or no, and as his wife you need to entrust him with some responsibility.
An engagement ring is a piece of jewelry that is a commitment or promise of marriage. It is usually presented by one partner to another. If the other partner accepts then he or she wears the ring on the ring finger until the wedding date.
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